Muhammad- Is he a demon or the destroyer of the devil?

Sometime back I came across several write ups of Hindus where they attempted to refute the Muslim claim that Prophet Muhammad was predicted in the Bhavishya Purana as a true Prophet of God. The main blog which attempts to prove that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a demon (God Forbid) is www.bhavishyapuran.blogspot.in. The Hindu opinions in this regard, however, are divergent. Some Hindus rejected Bhavishya Purana as an interpolated scripture because it even contains the events of the British Empire in India and mention of Queen Victoria. Other Hindus decided to take a unique route. They accepted that Prophet Muhammad was mentioned in the Bhavishya Purana but in a negative manner as a demon incarnate rather than a saintly person.

They attempted to do this only by picking few words in from the Sanskrit text of Prati Sarg Parv where this is mentioned and translating them in a wrong manner.


I will present before you the correct interpretation of the passage from the Bhavishya Purana and refute the evil propaganda of these misled Hindus who are driven by the ideology of hate, because they consider all non Indians as evil and untouchable.

My opinion about Bhavishya Purana: No doubt it is a highly interpolated book, just like the other books of Hinduism are interpolated, be it the Vedas (click here and here), the Mabharata, the Gita (click here), etc. Islam is not dependent on this Purana or other Purana to prove itself. Let the whole corpus of Hindu texts speak ill of Islam, still that would have no impact on the veracity of Islam. Still, the chapter in question does not necessarily speak about Islam in a negative manner, as the Hindu propagandists are claiming. With Almighty’s help, I will refute their mistranslation and misinterpretation to the core.

The main refutation

The first thing one has to understand about the relevant passage of Bhavishya Purana, is that it is a dream or a vision and not an actual reality because no meeting of any Raja Bhoj happened with Prophet Muhammad, nor does history record any such interaction. Dreams always have to be interpreted and not taken too literally. The figures in the dreams have deep meaning which needs to be revealed. This is the only plausible way to interpret this chapter. I will highlight the main figures of this dream/vision and what they symbolize. They are as follows:

1. Mahamad: Stands for Prophet Muhammad, as well as Islam.

2. Raja Bhoj: Symbolizes the dominant innocent Hindu population of India

3. Kalidaas: Symbolizes the shrewd Brahmins and Swamis of India

4: Angelic being: Symbolizes God or at times his envoy (doot)

The Sanskrit text of Pratisarg Parv 3; Khand 3; Adhyaai 3; Shlokas 5 to 27 is given below

Incorrect translation of shlokas 5-8 as given by the Hindus

He crossed the river Sindhu and conquered over the gandharas, mlecchas, shakas, kasmiris, naravas and sathas. He punished them and collected a large ammount of wealth. Then the king went along with Mahamada (Muhammad), the preceptor of mleccha-dharma, and his followers to the great god, Lord Shiva, situated in the desert. He bathed Lord Shiva with Ganges water and worshipped him in his mind with pancagavya (milk, ghee, yoghurt, cow dung, and cow urine) and sandalwood paste, etc. After he offered some prayers and pleased him.

Correct Translation

At that time a spiritual teacher (Acharya) known as Mahamad (Muhammad) appeared amongst the Mlecchas (non Indians/non Aryans), along with his companions/disciples. The King after giving this Mahaa Deva (of angelic disposition) dweller of the desert (Marusthal Nivasi), a bath in the Panchgavya and the Ganges water (meaning honouring and praising him) offered him presents and showing him all reverence said: “I pay obeisance to you (Namaste) O Pride of Humanity (Girija Nath) dweller of the desert (Marusthal Nivaasi/Arabian dweller). You are the destroyer of the Devil (Tripurasur Naashaaya) who propagates deceit. You have been protected by fellow Mlecchas, and you are the embodiment of Divine Qualities (Sacchidanand Roopine). I am a your servant, and have come seeking your refuge.

Few points come out of these verses.

  1. Mahamad (Muhammad) has been called an Acharya (a spiritual teacher) of Mlecchas (the illiterate people).
  2. The King Bhoj (innocent Indian people) will yearn to follow Prophet Muhammad with all humility and accept him as their teacher.
  3. Muhammad is the destroyer of the Devil. Tripurasur in Puranic mythology stands for the Devil.
  4. Muhammad is a dweller of the desert. It cannot refer to Lord Shiva of the Puranas because his abode is said to be the Mount Kailash in the Himlayas and not the desert.
  5. The Prophet will be given protection against his enemies, by the fellow Mlecchas.
  6. Raja Bhoj washed the Prophet with Ganges water and Panchgavya. Since this is a vision, it cannot be taken literally but must be taken as symbolic for honour.
  7. He is called as the embodiment of divine qualities.

Meanings of certain words

Mleccha (म्लेच्छ): The word means a non Aryan, a foreigner, non Sanskrit speaking person according to its origin. Mleccha म्लेच्छ is itself a root according to Panini’s Dhatupath CHURADIGAN (tenth conjugation) चुरादिगणः whose meaning is अव्यक्तायां वाचि or unclear language. Mleccha only means one who speaks a foreign unknown language. it does not mean wicked according to Dhatupath of Panini. Later, it also took on the meaning of barbarian or an evil person. The reason for this is that according to the Castist Hindu view only Aryans are civilized and superior people. The rest of the world beyond the boundary of ‘Aryavarta’ is inferior and evil. As Hinduism is a religion which encourages racial discrimination and linguistic chauvinism, it is natural that they will look down upon the rest of the world as inferior; their religions as inferior, their language as inferior. From this perspective the word Mleccha, which stands for a non-Sanskrit speaking foreigner, has become synonymous with a barbarian. Below is the meaning of this word from Monier Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary.

Mleccha

The distinction between Aryas and Mlecchas is not on the basis of character but on the basis nationality as is clearly demarcated by Manu Smriti chapter 2: verses 21-23.

“21. That (country) which (lies) between the Himavat and the Vindhya (mountains) to the east of Prayaga and to the west of Vinasana (the place where the river Sarasvati disappears) is called Madhyadesa (the central region).

22. But (the tract) between those two mountains (just mentioned), which (extends) as far as the eastern and the western oceans, the wise call Aryavarta (the country of the Aryans).

23. That land where the black antelope naturally roams, one must know to be fit for the performance of sacrifices; (the tract) different from that (is) the country of the Mlecchas.”

Thus, according to the discriminatory interpretation of Hindus, only Aryavarta aka India is the place where noble people are found and the rest of the world is filled with evil people. Thus, Aryas are called Aryas (Noble) because they belong to the Aryavarta and Mlecchas are called so not because they are evil but because they are foreigners.

Thus the passage of Bhavishya Purana mentioning the Prophet Muhammad is among the Mlecchas means a foreigner, not a wicked man. If Hindus will insist that Mleccha means a sinner still that meaning will apply because Prophet Muhammad (sws) was raised by God to be a teacher (Acharya/Muallim) to the sinners of that time and purify them spiritually, teach them the Book of God and the Wisdom of it. In fact the Quran testifies to this in Surah 62 (al-Jumuah) verse 2 when it says

“It is He (God) Who has sent amongst the Unlettered People a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom — although they had been, before, in manifest error”

However, let me disprove the Hindu polemicists conclusively by establishing from Bhavishya Puran itself that the meaning of Mleccha is not necessarily bad.

The Aryan religion had slowly degenerated into a corrupted form and needed to be substituted by the Mleccha religion. This is mentioned in Bhavishya Puran Prati Sarg parv as follows,

“Corruption and violence will be the widespread in the seven sacred cities (Kashi etc.), because they will be inhabited by Dasyu, Shabara, Bhilla and other foolish people. In the land of Mlecchas, the followers of Mleccha religion will be wise and brave people. All good qualities will be found in Mlecchas and all sorts of vices will accumulate in the Aryas. Bharata and its islands will be ruled by Mlecchas. Having known these facts, O Muni, glorify the name of your Lord.”

[Bhavishya Puran, Prati sarg parv (3); Khand 1; Adhyaai 5, Shlokas 38-40]

This refutes the claims of the Hindu blog that Mlecchas are always bad and Aryas are always good. Let them now come forward and disprove us, if they can.

Other Shlokas

Let us turn to the meaning of shlokas 9-14.

Incorrect translation of shlokas 9-14 as given by the Hindus

Suta Goswami said: After hearing the king’s prayers, Lord Shiva said: O king Bhojaraja, you should go to the place called Mahakakshvara, that land is called Vahika and now is being contaminated by the mlecchas. In that terrible country there no longer exists dharma. There was a mystic demon named Tripura (Tripurasura), whom I have already burnt to ashes, he has come again by the order of Bali. He has no origin but he achieved a benediction from me. His name is Mahamada (Muhammad) and his deeds are like that of a ghost. Therefore, O king, you should not go to this land of the evil ghost. By my mercy your intelligence will be purified. Hearing this the king came back to his country and Mahamada(Muhammad) came with them to the bank of the river Sindhu.

Correct Translation

“Suta Goswami said: After hearing the king’s praises, an angel (dev) said to him. “O Bhojraj, go to the place Mahakaaleshwar (in other words, look at the condition of that place). The Mlecchas have spoiled the well known land of the Arabs (Vahika Desh). Arya Dharm (the religion of truth in Indian parlance) is not to be found in that country. Before also there had appeared this Satan (Tripurasura: denoting Satanic times) whom I had killed. He has come again (meaning Satanic times have returned) by the order of the Devil. To show the right path to these misguided people and guide them to the truth, the well known Muhammad, who has been given the epithet of Brahma (Ayoni), is busy in bring the Pishachas (meat-eaters) to the right path. Therefore, O King, you need not go to this land of the foolish Pishachas. Through my mercy you will be sanctified here itself (in your own land). Hearing this the King returned to his country. Mahamada (Muhammad, signifying Islam) also came to the banks of the Sindhu””

Few points come out of these verses.

  1. The condition of Arabia will deteriorate and it will corrupted by evil-doers. Qurán has verified this condition prevailing in Arabia at the time of Prophet Muhammad in these words, “ظَهَرَ الْفَسَادُ فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ أَيْدِي النَّاسِ Corruption has appeared throughout the land and sea by [reason of] what the hands of people have earned [Surah Rum 30: Verse 41]“
  2. The True Religion is not found there. Here, the Sanskrit terms Arya Dharm do not refer to Hinduism, but to the true religion in Indian parlance. This true religion of Ibraheem (Abraham/Brahma) had disappeared from Arabia. The Qurán has used the terms Deeni Hunafa and Deen al-Qayyim to describe this true religion, “وَمَا أُمِرُوا إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ مُخْلِصِينَ لَهُ الدِّينَ حُنَفَاءَ وَيُقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُوا الزَّكَاةَ ۚ وَذَٰلِكَ دِينُ الْقَيِّمَةِ And they have been commanded no more than this: To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practice regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight. [Surah Bayyinah 98: verse 4]“
  3. The present enemies of Prophet Muhammad and the Satanic elements will perish just like they perished in previous times such as the enemies of Prophet Noah, Lut, Saalih, Shuayb, Moses, Abraham etc the great civilizations like Aad, Thamud, Pharaoh, Namrud, etc perished ultimately. The word Tripurasur in this passage does not just stand for some mythological demon, but to the Satanic order. Remember this is a dream .
  4. In order to guide these misguided people Prophet Muhammad has been given the epithet of Brahma (Abraham) and he is busy in reforming his Arabian people. Hindus have mistranslated the term Ayoni as ‘having no origin’. If we adopt this meaning, the sentence becomes meaningless. Actually, in Hindu tradition, Ayoni is a title of Brahma (Brahma is sanskritized version of Abraham). The reason for giving Prophet Muhammad, the epithet of Brahma, is because just like Abraham (Brahma) fought against the sinfulness and idolatry of his time, similarly Prophet Muhammad will fight the idolatry of his time.
  5. King Bhoj (standing for the Indian people) will not have to go to Arabia. They will be purified when Muslims will arrive in India. So now that the Muslims have arrived in India, the Hindus should convert to Islam.

Other Shlokas

Now let us turn to the meaning of shlokas 15 onwards.

Incorrect translation of shlokas 15 onwards as given by the Hindus

He was expert in expanding illusion, so he said to the king very pleasingly: O great king, your god has become my servant. Just see, as he eats my remnants, so I will show you. The king became surprised when he saw this just before them. Then in anger Kalidasa rebuked Mahamada(Muhammad) “O rascal, you have created an illusion to bewilder the king, I will kill you, you are the lowest…”

Correct Translation

This prince (i.e. Muhammad), full of wisdom, affectionately said to the King: “O King, your deities are my servants. Just see, they eat my leftover food”. Hearing this argument and seeing this, the King was surprised and was mulling to convert to this foreign religion. Then in terrible anger, Kalidas rebuked Mahamada (Muhammad) by saying, “O cheat, you have bewildered the King, with your wisdom. I will kill you, the wicked person that you are.”

Points come out of this passage

As you can see the Hindus are consistently mistranslating some words and not translating some other words. The words “the King was surprised and was mulling to convert to this foreign religion” are not given by the Hindu translation. This shows their intellectual dishonesty. Now, here are the inferences from this passage:

  1. The Hindus here mistranslated the word Maayaa as illusion, when in reality it also carries the meaning of Wisdom (See Monier Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary). Even in Rigveda 1/11/7 , the word Maayaa has been used in a positive sense for Lord Indra who is supposed to have resorted to Maayaa in order to defeat his enemies. मायाभिरिन्द्र मायिनं तवं शुष्णमवातिरः | The wily Śuṣṇa, Indra! thou overthrew with your wondrous powers.
  2. As all these events are happening in a dream, we need to interpret them properly. Now here, Prophet Muhammad reasons AFFECTIONATELY with Raja Bhoj (the Indian people), that the things/animals you worship in Hinduism, eat our leftover food. How then do they deserve our worship? This is the Prophetic method of argument. Prophets have an affection towards the people to whom they are sent. The Prophets urge people to use their mind and turn to the worship of one God, and leave the senseless worship of animals and other created things. The Prophet speaks wisely and affectionately with the people hoping that they will understand. Do they understand?
  3. Yes, Raja Bhoj, (symbolizing the majority of the people), is attracted to the plain message of the Prophet Muhammad. The people know that this argument is good and they feel attracted to Islam and think of converting to Islam. This is true even of modern times. Whenever the polytheistic people are questioned that how can you worship something which is lower than humans, they agree in their heart to this truth.
  4. But here comes the hurdle. As soon as the shrewd Brahmin priests (symbolized by Kalidas) get to know that the Indian people are attracted to Islam and will convert to Islam, they start their mischievous propaganda. Their most effective trick is to vilify Islam, insult the Prophet and try to ruin his image in the minds of the ordinary Hindus, so that people are no longer attracted to Islam. They even try to kill the Prophet (Muslims), because they have no knowledgeable response to the plain questions. This same strategy is being spoken of in this passage. Kalidas (i.e. the shrewd Brahmins), not able to respond to the plain argument of the Prophet (and Muslims), starts to rebuke the Prophet and call him insulting titles like cheat, fraud, magician, etc. This attitude of the enemies of Islam is even spoken of in the Holy Qurán in these words. فَلَمَّا جَاءَهُمُ الْحَقُّ مِنْ عِنْدِنَا قَالُوا إِنَّ هَٰذَا لَسِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ “When the Truth did come to them from Us, they said: “This is indeed evident magic!” [Surah Yunus 10: verse 76] فَلَمَّا جَاءَتْهُمْ آيَاتُنَا مُبْصِرَةً قَالُوا هَٰذَا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ “But when Our Signs came to them, that should have opened their eyes, they said: “This is sorcery manifest!” [Surah Naml 27: verse 13] إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْفُرُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ وَيَقْتُلُونَ النَّبِيِّينَ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ وَيَقْتُلُونَ الَّذِينَ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْقِسْطِ مِنَ النَّاسِ فَبَشِّرْهُمْ بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ “As to those who deny the Signs of Allah and in defiance of right, slay the prophets, and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind, announce to them a grievous penalty.” [Surah Aalim Imran 3: verse 21]

The lesson in this passage of Bhavishya Purana is that people of India should not fall in the tricks of shrewd Brahmin priests like VHP/RSS/Arya Samaj/ISKCON/Art of Living/Agniveer/Ramdev etc. They should ignore their propaganda against Islam and Prophet Muhammad and embrace the religion of Prophet Muhammad, who loves them and is affectionate to them.

Other Shlokas

Now let us turn to the meaning of shlokas 22 onwards.

Incorrect translation of shlokas 22 onwards as given by the Hindus

That city is known as their site of pilgrimage, a place which was Madina or free from intoxication. Having a form of a ghost (Bhuta), the expert illusionist Mahamada(Muhammad) appeared at night in front of king Bhojaraja and said: O king, your religion is of course known as the best religion among all. Still I am going to establish a terrible and demoniac religion by the order of the Lord . The symptoms of my followers will be that they first of all will cut their genitals, have no shikha, but having beard, be wicked, make noise loudly and eat everything. They should eat animals without performing any rituals. This is my opinion. They will perform purificatory act with the musala or a pestle as you purify your things with kusha. Therefore, they will be known as musalman, the corrupters of religion. Thus the demoniac religion will be founded by me. After having heard all this the king came back to his palace and that ghost(Muhammad) went back to his place.

Correct Translation

That city is known as their site of pilgrimage, a place which was Madina or free from intoxication. An angelic being (Dev/standing for God’s envoy), in the form of a Pisacha appeared at night in front of king Bhojaraja and said: O king, your Arya Dharma has been known as the best religion among all, still I am now going to establish a strong meat-eating religion by the order of the Lord. The peculiar features of my followers will be that they will be circumcised, have no shikha, having a beard, revolutionary, make Azaan (call to prayer) loudly and will assimilate all religions. They will eat animals without performing elaborate Hindu rituals. They will purified with the musala or a pestle as you purify your things with kusha. They will be known as Musalmaan, and will refute the (false) religion. This the meat-eating religion will be founded by me. After having heard all this the king came back to his palace and that angelic being also went away.

Points to be considered.

  1. The city of Madina is spoken as being free from intoxication (Mad Heen). We know that wine barrels were emptied in the streets of Madina, never to be refilled. This is a righteous city.
  2. The angelic being (devroop) here is a God’s envoy who is informing the Indian people of the features of Muslims.
  3. Arya Dharma will be substituted by Islam, as the old religion has become corrupted. We all know that the Vedas, Upanishads, Mahabharata, Gita, and Purans have become corrupted. Vedas are not studied by common masses anymore and they are too voluminous to be books of daily guidance. For this reason, the Holy Qurán is substituting them.
  4. God will establish the meat eating religion. Hinduism had wrongly become vegetarian and abadoned meat eating under the influence of Buddhism and Jainism. Otherwise in Vedas and other Hindu scriptures, meat eating is allowed. Now Islam will be again allowing consumption of meat. The word Pishacha Dharma in this passage has been wrongly translated by the Hindus as a demoniac religion. It actually means meat eating religion. Because meat eating in corrupted Hinduism had been looked down upon as demoniac act, therefore the Pishacha was equated to demon. Otherwise from its root, it stands for meat. पिशित in Sanskrit means flesh or meat; पेशी means a lump of flesh or meat. So highlighting one word just to deceive ordinary Hindus in thinking of Islam as a demoniac religion, is real demoniac behaviour of the shrewd Brahmins, (depicted by Kalidas).
  5. This passage also speaks of the features of Muslims, which we all know of. I will only explain few of the contentious words because they tend to be emphasized by the Hindu blog. The passage uses the word Dushaka (दूषक) which normally is thought to mean polluted. However, in Sanskrit it carries another meaning of दोष Dosha (Blame; Objection; Refutation). Some of the meanings of the word दूषण Dooshana in V.S. Apte’s Practical Sanskrit-English Dictionaryare,
    • Adverse argument
    • Criticism
    • Objection
    • Refutation

    Therefore, Dharmadooshaka in this context here will mean refuter of false religion. One that will put false religious beliefs and practices in the dock and abandon them. Now, when it does so, obviously, from the perspective of the people of those false religions, it will a pollution or corruption of their false religion. So, if we adopt that meaning also, it is perfectly okay. It is a fact that Islam refutes the false ideas like Caste System, which was made the integral part of Hindu Religion. To the Hindus, who believe in this system, certainly, abolishing caste is a corruption in Hindu religion, because without Caste System there is no Hinduism. So, Islam’s message of equality of all humans, did not go well with the shrewd Brahmins.

  6. Islam is the future of India.

Let the common Hindus not fall into the trap of Hindutva propaganda against Islam and Prophet Muhammad and without any further delay, accept the pure religion of Islam, and fulfill this dream of Bhavishya Puran.

Meaning of Asur असुर

The Hindu blog attempted to make the common Hindus believe that Prophet Muhammad was an Asur (demon). But let me expose their falsehood. They do not even know their own scriptures. If Asur only means evil spirit or demon, may I ask, why are Hindu Vedic deities like Indra, Agni aur Rudra given the attribute of Asur? Impossible!, said the Hindu with whom I discussed. “Don’t worry”, I said. “I will show you”. So saying I quoted from Rigveda 1/24/14

अव ते हेळो वरुण नमोभिरव यज्ञेभिरीमहे हविर्भिः |कषयन्नस्मभ्यमसुर परचेता राजन्नेनांसि शिश्रथः कर्तानि ||

With bending down, oblations, sacrifices, O Varuna, we deprecate your anger: Wise Asura, you King of wide dominion, loosen the bonds of sins by us committed.

Here, Vedic God, Varuna has been called as Asura.

Again in Rigveda 8/42/1 Varuna has been called as Asura

अस्तभ्नाद दयामसुरो विश्ववेदा अमिमीत वरिमाणं पर्थिव्याः |

LORD of all wealth, the Asura propped the heavens, and measured out the broad earth’s wide expanses.

Indra is called Asura in Rigved 1/54/3

बर्हच्छ्रवा असुरो बर्हणा कर्तः पुरो हरिभ्यां वर्षभो रथो हि षः ||

High glory hath the Asura, compact of strength, drawn on by two Bay Steeds: a Bull, a Car is he.

Rigved 1/174/1

तवं राजेन्द्र ये च देवा रक्षा नॄन पाह्यसुर तवमस्मान |

YOU art the King of all the Gods, O Indra: protect the men, O Asura, preserve us.

Agni is also called Asura is Rigveda 5/12/1

पराग्नये बर्हते यज्ञियाय रतस्य वर्ष्णे असुराय मन्म |

To Agni, lofty Asura, meet for worship, Steer of eternal Law, my prayer I offer;

Rudra, who in the Puranas is known as Shiva is also called Asura in Rigveda 5/42/11

यक्ष्वा महे सौमनसाय रुद्रं नमोभिर देवम असुरं दुवस्य ||

Worship thou Rudra for his great good favour: adore the Asura, God, with salutations.

These are more than sufficient to refute the Hindu claim that Asura is a demon. If they want to malign Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as a demon, let them first malign their own gods whom they worship with pride.


If Hindus feel that the information I have given here is not correct, then let them disprove it with proper references.


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50 thoughts on “Muhammad- Is he a demon or the destroyer of the devil?

  1. very informative . aam taur pe log sanskrit nahi samajhte isliye unko kuch ka kuch matlab bata dia jata hai . halanki ye khula sach hai ki islam sabse zyada bhaichare aur rahamdili bhara dharm hai

  2. The term comes from two Sanskrit words “Malina” meaning lowly, dirty, filthy, impure, wretched, unchaste, unclean, admixed, adulterated, contaminated, corrupt, immoral, decadent, infected, obscene, tainted and “CCha/CCheetkara” meaning abhorrence, loathing, disgust, abomination, repugnance. Mlechcha implicitly refers to someone eating non-vegetarian and having unclean/decadent culture and even wicked mind and disposition. The term ‘Menchha’ was also used by the medieval Marathi saint Samarth Ramdas.[8] Buddhist scriptures use the terms ‘Milakkha’ or ‘Milakkhuka’ to refer to Mlecchas.

    The above is the actual meaning of Mlechcha. Whoever has been promoting this site has been giving false information to people. I am sure this site is getting promoted by the same fool ZAKIR NAIK. He is one big fool and making others fool in the name of ALLAH.

    If this is an open debate why you have created this to be a secured website. Why are you scared and of what ?

    PLEASE DONT PUSH MUSLIMS INTO THE TRAP OF FAKE ISLAM PROPAGANDA AGAINST HINDUISM AND WITHOUT ANY FURTHER DELAY, ACCEPT THE PURE RELIGION OF HINDUISM/ CHRISTIANITY. THIS WILL SURELY HELP YOU AND YOUR OTHER MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS. ATLEAST YOU GUYS WILL NOT BE KILLING INNOCENT ANIMALS AND LIVING BEINGS IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.

    IF YOU HAVE GUTS PLEASE COME TO ISKCON AND ARGUE WITH US, YOU WILL SURELY GET DEFEATED AS YOU HAVE BEEN ADVERTISING WRONG THINGS HERE.

    • @Rahul / aka copy paster from Wikipedia

      I was waiting for STUPID FOOLS like you to comment

      you wrote

      ——The term comes from two Sanskrit words “Malina” meaning lowly, dirty, filthy, impure, wretched, unchaste, unclean, admixed, adulterated, contaminated, corrupt, immoral, decadent, infected, obscene, tainted and “CCha/CCheetkara” meaning abhorrence, loathing, disgust, abomination, repugnance. Mlechcha implicitly refers to someone eating non-vegetarian and having unclean/decadent culture and even wicked mind and disposition. The term ‘Menchha’ was also used by the medieval Marathi saint Samarth Ramdas.[8] Buddhist scriptures use the terms ‘Milakkha’ or ‘Milakkhuka’ to refer to Mlecchas.—-

      This is A LIE. You did not even read the article properly. I have given the scanned image from Dictionary as to the meaning of Mleccha. The root of Mleccha (even given in the image) is in Dhatupath. Mleccha म्लेच्छ is itself a root according to Dhatupath CHURADIGAN (tenth conjugation) चुरादिगणः whose meaning is अव्यक्तायां वाचि or unclear language. So Mleccha only means one who speaks a foreign unknown language. it does not mean wicked according to Dhatupath of Panini. Thus you and the one who wrote that wikipedia post are both liars.

      But even if we take the meaning of Mleccha as wicked or sinful still the article has already answered this query. But you blind people never read properly

      If Hindus will insist that Mleccha means a sinner still that meaning will apply because Prophet Muhammad (sws) was raised by God to be a teacher (Acharya/Muallim) to the sinners of that time and purify them spiritually, teach them the Book of God and the Wisdom of it. In fact the Quran testifies to this in Surah 62 (al-Jumuah) verse 2 when it says

      “It is He (God) Who has sent amongst the Unlettered People a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom — although they had been, before, in manifest error”

      However, let me disprove the Hindu polemicists conclusively by establishing from Bhavishya Puran itself that the meaning of Mleccha is not necessarily bad.

      The Aryan religion had slowly degenerated into a corrupted form and needed to be substituted by the Mleccha religion. This is mentioned in Bhavishya Puran Prati Sarg parv as follows,

      “Corruption and violence will be the widespread in the seven sacred cities (Kashi etc.), because they will be inhabited by Dasyu, Shabara, Bhilla and other foolish people. In the land of Mlecchas, the followers of Mleccha religion will be wise and brave people. All good qualities will be found in Mlecchas and all sorts of vices will accumulate in the Aryas. Bharata and its islands will be ruled by Mlecchas. Having known these facts, O Muni, glorify the name of your Lord.”

      [Bhavishya Puran, Prati sarg parv (3); Khand 1; Adhyaai 5, Shlokas 38-40]

      This refutes the claims of the Hindu blog that Mlecchas are always bad and Aryas are always good. Let them now come forward and disprove us, if they can.

      Don’t bring Zakir Naik here. Answer the article or get some knowledgeable person to debate here. Else you will only cause shame to yourself and Hindu religion. You can even hire and ISKCON pandit to counter this. We will even teach him. Whole world is seeing your senseless comment and how you failed to refute this article and now we have refuted your bogus comment.

  3. Good Interpolations. If only you had known a bit of sanskrit you perhaps wouldn’t have made obvious mistakes (Or perhaps you wanted to make them). The translations you have quoted may be wrong at places but the ones from you are also equally motivated and wrong. Setting that aside it must have taken enormous imaginations to come up with Maha Deva as “of angelic disposition” and Girija Nath as “Pride of Humanity ” to imply Muhammad. This are just few examples. And the logic forwarded that it can’t Shiva is that he resides in Mount Kailash so can’t be the said marusthalnivashi. This is plain foolish. His abode may be Kailash per the purana but he (or any of the diety), to a worshipper, is everywhere. The said place could very well be Marutirtha Hinglaj and Chandrakoop, it is a Shakti Pith in marusthal!!

    • I have interpreted this chapter in a coherent way and there is no other alternative interpretation. I simply exposed the wrong translations of Hindus. Taking Shiva here in the passage will render it totally meaningless.

      • Yes we could see that. The so called ‘Hindu’ translation you have provided though with certain gaps here and there is the only meaningful and coherent explanation to these passages. It is strange that you think that Mahadeva and Girija Nath means what you want us to believe, “of angelic disposition” and “Pride of Humanity “. That is pretty imaginative, I must say but completely off the mark or should I say prankish? In Puranic texts they have always meant Shiva and here they come together in the same verse, more so the emphasis of the terms meaning Shiva.

      • The Hindu translation is dishonest and vile. It is a mistranslation in reality as is plainly visible but stupid people like you do not see that. Mahadeva means ‘great dev’. Dev means bright coming from root Da. So my translation is perfectly fine. You have to disprove why it is wrong linguistically. The lines are not addressed to any Shiva. They are addressed to Mahamada. Therefore, your imagination is wrong.

        एतस्मिन्नन्तरे (At that time) म्लेच्छ (a foreigner) आचार्य्येण समन्वितः (a ‘spiritual teacher’ endowed) | महामद इति ख्यातः (well known as Mahamada) शिष्यशाखासमन्वितः (came along with his disciples) नृपश्चैव (the king gave) महादेवं (this Mahadeva) मरुस्थलनिवासिनम् (the dweller of the desert) गङ्गाजलेश्च (ganga water) संस्नाप्य (bath) पञ्चगव्य (panchagavya) समन्वितैः (endowed with) चन्दनादिभिः (and with sandalwood) अभ्यर्च्य ( with reverence), तुष्टाव मनसा हरम् (to his heart’s content) नमस्ते (Homage) गिरिजानाथ (Girijanath) मरुस्थलनिवासिने (dweller of the desert).

        The address is all the way to Mahamada and not to mythical Shiva. Regarding Girijanath, you seem to be uncomfortable with my rendering Pride of humanity. The root Giri means highly praised, honoured. We can also render it as Lord of praise and honour. Pride of humanity was only a loose rendering of the same. If you are not comfortable, you can settle with ‘most honourable’.

        The bottom line is it is addressing Mahamada and not Shiva, so it has to be rendered accordingly.

  4. sir do you have access to Allahabad university’s research professor pandit vedaprakash upadhai’s book titled “kalki avatar” or is it banned altogether in India?if available where can we find it?

  5. Isn’t it possible that the whole section of the Bhavishya Purana that speaks of Adam, Enoch, Lamech, Noach, upto jesus and Muhammad is just a giant interpolation?

    • That is not my point here. That is a problem for Hindus, not for us. My job was to simply show that Prophet Muhammad (sws) is not spoken of as a demon here. To me, the Hindu scriptures are all worthless and without authenticity.

    • @Elendil,
      I too would think that. My guess is this was written post facto. The Bhoj referred here is indeed the real Raja Bhoj who ruled for 50 years between 1000 (or 1005) and 1055 AD. He indeed chased the Muslim invaders, notably Ghajnavi as well as Ghazi Masud. He might have come across some Muslim preacher when campaigning Far West (desert), who might have had a Mahamad in his name it is not at all uncommon among Muslims. Bhoj was a Parmar and hence belonged to the Agni Vangsha and hence can trace his lineage to the famed Vikramaditya (of Vikram Samvat fame). This perfectly fits the description of the Bhoja mentioned in the preceding verses of this chapter.

      • The passage talks of Madina (Madheen pura) being their site of pilgrimage of Musalmans and also that Mahamada is buried there. It hardly refers to Gaznavi. Your theory is incorrect.

  6. Frankly, the text looks to me as if the relevant text was written by someone in contact with Christian missionaries in early modern India (I would bet on the Jesuits).

  7. On Asura, I don’t know much, but my impression is that the meaning of the word has changed from Vedic times, when it just meant something like ‘mighty’ to a demon by Puranic times. (Hindus, correct me if I am wrong.)
    Probably this happened when ancient Iranian religion with Ahura (Asura) Mazda as its Deity, split from the original Indo-Aryan religion.

    • In pouranic parlances asura has always meant a demon. In the Rik, indeed as the author says, Asura didn’t (always) have negative connotations. Why and when asura became a negative character is a matter of conjecture. It is likely that as the original vedic society split into Iranian and Indian branches there was some sort of re-characterisation. However that might have evolved the author can’t apeal to the authority of certain examples from the RIk to give an opposite meaning to the pouranic Asur.

      • What is the point? I was merely pointing out the meaning of Asura. In any case Mahamada is not called Asura.

  8. Also, equating Abraham with Brahma seem very silly. It is as stupid as some Hindus claiming that Jesus Christ was a follower of Krishna because of the similarity in the two words.

  9. @bhavishyapuran,
    “To me, the Hindu scriptures are all worthless and without authenticity.”
    You have the right to be critical of Hinduism, but please be respectful and polite. Words like ‘worthless’ won’t do. I’m not a Hindu, but I have a great deal of admiration for the Bhagavad-Gita, the Ramayana etc. Whether it is authentic or not is a different issue. Also, if the Hindu scriptures are worthless to you, why use them to claim that Muhammad was predicted in them, just in as silly a manner as others read Muhammad into Biblical texts?

    @sudeepta,
    I agree. Just because something is remotely plausible doesn’t mean it is the truth. The text of the Bhavishya Purana I have read speaks of the serpent in the garden of Eden, and also says that this was a demon, which is how Christians interpret the Genesis story. That is why I think the Jesuits had something to do with the writer of this Purana. Jews don’t believe in a Devil figure, to them Satan is just another angel, not even a fallen angel. Muslims don’t believe that Iblis came in the form of a serpent, as far as I know.

    In fact, I have heard of theories of Abraham from Hindus too, some claim that Abraham was really a renegade Brahmana (A-brahmana = Abraham) who settled with his wife in Canaan, and his wife Sarah was a shortened form of Saraswati! @bhavishyapuran should agree that this is plausible too! :)

    • @Elendil,
      Other than the fact that there are linguistic and philogical differences between Brahma and Abraham, the author here is using obscurantism. Abram was the name and it became Abraham after the covenant (at the age of 95!). Even the characteristics aren’t same. And there are many such instances in this article. For example, dooshak means polluter and the author beats around dosha and dooshan!!

      Vahik means and had always meant western provinces beyond/around Sutlej/Indus, places like Punjab, Kamboja and even Gandhar, but never Arabia. This again coincides with the region where the historical Raja Bhoja fought few wars and repulsed the Islamic/Ghaznavid forces.

      The author has allowed his wishes to fly like horses, so Raja Bhoja becomes “the dominant innocent Hindu populace”. And there are many such lapses. For example pishacha, yes pisach comes from meat eating, But thats the etymological part. The usage has always meant demonic meat eating beings. Etymologically “bank” comes from the German word “banc” which means bench. Surely the author doesn’t go to a bench to deposit/withdraw money though only he knows best.

      However I am not sure Jesuits have much to do here, though the texts actually good things about Isa and his religion.

      • @sudeepta

        Rather than coherently refuting my interpretation, you make some stray remarks catching certain words, of which you have no proper knowledge.

        Dooshak certainly means refuter and critique. I stand by this. There is no beating around here. Even if we take polluter, I have given the explanation. Care to read it again with unbiased mind.

        Vaahik means outsider, external (refer to Panini’s ashtaadhyaayi) and can mean Arabia, also when it referers to Madina in the passage. Taking Vaahik as punjab makes no sense in this passage.

        //The author has allowed his wishes to fly like horses,//

        better than the dishonest Hindu mistranslations of each and every line.

        //so Raja Bhoja becomes “the dominant innocent Hindu populace”//

        I choose to interpret this as a dream. This is no lapse. You claims carry no weight.

        Pishacha means meat eater. That is all. It is demonic from Hindu viewpoint, not from Arabic viewpoint. When we take the holistic meaning of the passage, interpreating Pishacha as demonic is not correct becaue the rest of the passage praises Mahamada as a good person.

    • @Elendil

      Yes they are worthless to me. You can keep your regard to yourself, whoever you may be.

      //Also, if the Hindu scriptures are worthless to you, why use them to claim that Muhammad was predicted in them//

      I did not use them. I am refuting the Hindu polemics that Mahamda (Muhammad) here is called a demon. I have already stated that Bhavishya Purana means nothing to me. Read properly .

      Regarding the connection between Abraham and Brahma, I am ok with it. You have also tried to connect them by giving more evidence. Good. Is there any proper reply you have about the article or just hang on a minor point and waste my time?

  10. @sudeepta,
    You’re right about the Abram bit, of course. He became Abraham only after YHWH named him so. And thanks for the Sanskrit meanings, I did not know them. Talk about eisegesis :)
    Also, in Hinduism, dharma means much more than religion, it is something like the Hebrew Tsedeq, which refers to righteousness. So dharma-dooshak is a polluter of righteousness!
    Just one thing: The name is Yeshua in the original Hebrew/Aramaic, in Greek it became Iesous. I really shouldn’t be quibbling about this, since I’m no longer Christian, but I’d prefer you refer to him as either Yeshua or Jesus. Please :)

    • @Elendil,
      I always refer to Jesus as Jesus. Only that here, in Bhavishya Puran, the word used is ‘Isa’, the reason why I used it.

    • ///Also, in Hinduism, dharma means much more than religion, it is something like the Hebrew Tsedeq, which refers to righteousness. ///

      Dharma means profession or duty in Sanskrit. That is why it is said in Hinduism that the Dharma of Brahmin is preisthood, the Dharma of Kshatriya is fighting, the Dharma of Vaishya is business and the dharma of Shidra is service of the three castes. Also the dharma of a prostitute is prostitution.

      That is why manu 10/96 says “one’s own dharma (profession) is better even if it is inferior and another’s dharma is not better even if it is superior. ”

      So dharma dooshak will be the polluter/reformer of this inequality , which is a virtue.

  11. @Bhavishyapura,
    “The passage talks of Madina (Madheen pura) being their site of pilgrimage of Musalmans and also that Mahamada is buried there. It hardly refers to Gaznavi. Your theory is incorrect.”
    If anything, your reading faculties are poor. Where did I say that these passages referes to Ghajnavi? And where does the passage say that Mahamad is buried in Madhina (check verse 22), in fact it is not there in your own so called ‘correct translation’ either.

    “What is the point? I was merely pointing out the meaning of Asura. In any case Mahamada is not called Asura.”
    True. Mahamad is not called asura here, so why indeed you wasted half a dozen para in establishing its meaning. Mahamad is said to have taken the form of a pishach (meat eating demon) in Bhoja’s dream.

    Almost every verse has been interpolated by you and you have tried to force a meaning which would somehow imply that the character Mahamad (this needn’t be the Islamic prophet strictly speaking) here is shown in good light. And you have flopped miserably at that too. I have pointed out the incongruency of Mahadeva and Girija nath, the theological non-equivalence of Abraham and Brahma, the mistranslation of Vahik as Arabia, the foolishness of only using etymology in coming to the meaning/usage of a word (for example Pishacha in these passages)

    “The address is all the way to Mahamada and not to mythical Shiva”
    It is a common knowledge that Mahadev and Girijanath refers to Shiva in all pouranic text. And even linguistically you are wrong. I have already stated that why it would and how it could refer to Shiva, not withstanding the epithet marusthalnivashi.

    “Regarding Girijanath, you seem to be uncomfortable with my rendering Pride of humanity. The root Giri means highly praised, honoured.”
    Girijanath = giri + ja + nath = husband of daughter of parvat = Shiva.

    “…but stupid people like you do not see that. Mahadeva means ‘great dev’. Dev means bright coming from root Da. So my translation is perfectly fine. You have to disprove why it is wrong linguistically.”
    Lets see your (mis)translation: Mahadeva = of angelic disposition
    Your stupidity knows no bounds. As I said the root of word doesn’t always lead to its usage. I see, you withdraw your money from the bench (possibly in a park?).
    The root is diw, which is gender invariant and means to shine and from which is derived a host of words including the word Deva. However, and this is important, diw is gender invariant and Deva is masculine and so only refers to a male shining being literally BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN JUST A SHINING BEING!!
    And in the scriptures it refers to a demigod or diety. Why would Deva, which is masculine mean Angelic Disposition? Can a disposition be male (or female)? Mahadeva can only mean a great Deva and hence a Great Diety. However in Purans and elsewhere this name is reserved only for Shiva.
    And diw is also the root of the word divine, would you say it only means something shining or perhaps for you A diamond is divine because it shines. As indeed Tuesdays would only be the ‘shining’ days. Ludicruous!!

    I can do the same with your rendering the word Mlechchha. You have glossed over all the other meanings and taking only the one which you think suitable for your thesis. You had also been referring the Dhatupath. Go back and read it properly. if you read it again you will find Mraksham Mlechchhne, Mlechche Avyktaye Shabde and then Mlechche Avyktayam Vachi. You have translated this as unclear language. I would say you are also a mere copy paster without looking up the contexts. Mraksham in sanskrit means to rubbed/anointed/mixed as well as hypocrite/liar etc (you can check any sanskrit dictionary). So “Mraksham Mlechchhne” can mean that a Mlechcha lies. I wonder why you didn’t take this one. Would you then say that the correct rendering is an acharya of the hypocrites appeared, named Muhammad, and was immediately praised and honoured by all the innocent Hindus?
    Now for “Mlechche Avyktayaam Vachi”,
    Vyakt means to say/speak, avyakt means to not speak. So here the correct meaning could be Mlechcha speak the unspeakable, so it needn’t be unclear language, but unclean/dirty language. Thats how words lose their meaning if we only read the roots without their context. Here mlechchha is only referring to a physical location to the west of India

    • The address is to Mahamada and not to Shiva, you are escaping that point. Simply put you do not want to accept that. Mahadeva and Girijanath are both addressed to Mahamada and hence you are wrong to insist that Shiva is being addressed.

      Deva means radiant and shining as I have extablished.

      //Why would Deva, which is masculine mean Angelic Disposition? Can a disposition be male (or female)? //

      A word being masculine does not mean that the object also is masculine. Don’t you know grammar or are you that stupid?

      The address is to Mahamada and he is being called Mahadeva and Girijanath and Marusthalnivasi. There is no room for any Shiva and you bogus and ludicrous theory.

      Mleccha’s meaning I have established from Bhavishya Purana itself. You are blind. I am not going to waste time with a blind person like you.

      “Corruption and violence will be the widespread in the seven sacred cities (Kashi etc.), because they will be inhabited by Dasyu, Shabara, Bhilla and other foolish people. In the land of Mlecchas, the followers of Mleccha religion will be wise and brave people. All good qualities will be found in Mlecchas and all sorts of vices will accumulate in the Aryas. Bharata and its islands will be ruled by Mlecchas. Having known these facts, O Muni, glorify the name of your Lord.”

      [Bhavishya Puran, Prati sarg parv (3); Khand 1; Adhyaai 5, Shlokas 38-40]

      Mraksha means speak indistinctly. Check any dictionary. unclean/dirty is for Hindu linguistic chauvinists who consider only Sanskrit as pure language. That is why towards the end of this chapter it says that the King established Sanskrit as the language in the dwijas, Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas. But in SHudras he established Prakrit. Again showing that the chauvinists consider Sanskrit as superior.

  12. @Bhavishyapuran,
    “you yourself are a silly person.”
    Great. Show me the linguistic, philogical and theological basis of equating Brahma with Abraham.

    “Dharma means profession or duty in Sanskrit……So dharma dooshak will be the polluter/reformer of this inequality ”
    Foolish. I wonder why didn’t you go to the roots in this case, the root is dhr, to hold/support. It doesn’t ONLY mean profession or duty. So a dharma-dooshak will be polluter of the virtues which hold or support this world. Show me some usages of the word dooshak as reformer from archaic/classical sanskrit.

    “if we take polluter, I have given the explanation. Care to read it again with unbiased mind.”
    I have read it completely unbiased mind. You have done a chit bhi meri pat bhi meri kind of explanation forgetting who is the speaker of this verse, a pishacha and he is saying that it will establish a religion that will pollute the Dharma which IS KNOWN TO BE THE BEST OF RELIGIONS. The only saving grace for you will be to NOT TAKE the meaning as polluter but reformer.

    “Rather than coherently refuting my interpretation, you make some stray remarks catching certain words, of which you have no proper knowledge”.
    I think all your “coherent arguments” have been dismantled. But I agree my knowledge isn’t complete or proper.

    “Vaahik means outsider, external (refer to Panini’s ashtaadhyaayi) and can mean Arabia, also when it referers to Madina in the passage. Taking Vaahik as punjab makes no sense in this passage”
    After language, your history also has come into question now. Vahik the word indeed means external, as well as carrier as well as situated TOWARD THE outer zone. And here it is used more as a proper name than anything. Refer Canakya’s Arthashashtra (and if you can’t get hold of that the serial Chanakya on you tube). Vahika pradesh has always referred to a place lying around and west of Sutlej/Indus. And if external, why indeed we take Arabia, why not Siberia.

    “Pishacha means meat eater. That is all. It is demonic from Hindu viewpoint, not from Arabic viewpoint. When we take the holistic meaning of the passage, interpreating Pishacha as demonic is not correct becaue the rest of the passage praises Mahamada as a good person.”
    Pisacha means a demonic being who eats meat. This is a Hindu text, so that silly Arabic viewpoint doesn’t stand. The holistic view-point has to take the meaning devilish or feindish to make any sense, if demonic is too hard for you to swallow. The only other way out is to ascribe this word to a community (refer Ashtadhyayi) but then “comng in the form of a pishacha” becomes meaningless. The simplest explanation is in Hindu pouranic sources pishacha alomost always refers to a demonic being, there is absolutely no need to render a different meanings per your whims.

    • In Sanskrit dooshak means refuter, objecter as I have written. So, my translation is perfectly fine.

      //I think all your “coherent arguments” have been dismantled. //

      dream on.

      //And if external, why indeed we take Arabia, why not Siberia.//

      yes highly intelligent question. O King go to punjab, is being spoiled by the mlecchas. Mahamada is busy guiding people there to the true path. Marusthal is doing fine. What a great interpretation from Mr. Sudeepta.

      // The only other way out is to ascribe this word to a community (refer Ashtadhyayi)//

      ah, the sanskrit scholar is coming out. can we know where?

      Pishacha is meat eater.

  13. “I choose to interpret this as a dream. This is no lapse. You claims carry no weight.”
    It is enough weight to my claim that YOU CHOOSE to interpret the way you thought would suit your thesis. Thanks for the clarification.

    • //It is enough weight to my claim that YOU CHOOSE to interpret the way you thought would suit your thesis. Thanks for the clarification.//

      ulta chor kotwal ko daante. you are making funny stories about this passage and then blaming me for suiting my thesis? wow. You are not even ashamed.

  14. @Bhavishyapuran,
    “Vaahik means outsider, external (refer to Panini’s ashtaadhyaayi) and can mean Arabia, also when it referers to Madina in the passage. Taking Vaahik as punjab makes no sense in this passage”
    And exactly which verse says that Madina is in the Vahika?

    • //And exactly which verse says that Madina is in the Vahika?//

      No no. it is punjab. Punjab makes full sense in the passage. Madina, which this chapter talks about is in India.

  15. @Bhavishyapuran,
    “ulta chor kotwal ko daante. you are making funny stories about this passage and then blaming me for suiting my thesis? wow. You are not even ashamed.”
    You have yourself said “I choose to interpret this as a dream”. So yes, ulta chor kotwal ko daante fits you perfectly. And yes, you are not even ashamed (but it may be a bit too much to expect from you). You haven’t been able to show the verse that says that Madina is in Vahika. The verse only says that Madhina is the pilgrimage of people living in Vahika and subscribing to this religion.

    “In Sanskrit dooshak means refuter, objecter as I have written. So, my translation is perfectly fine.”
    Yeah off-course. It makes perfect sense to say that the Dharma is known to be the best of religion and then in the immediate next verse say that my religion is going to refute it. Even if we take the meaning refuter or objecter, a refuter of the best religion would be a polluter. Not less. Also this is a climb down from your earlier meaning of ‘reformer’.

    You are also not able to quote a single phrase in Hindi/Sanskrit where x-dooshak would imply ‘reformer’ of ‘X’.

    “Deva means radiant and shining as I have extablished.”
    Plain foolish as I have established. The root diw means shining, that doesn’t mean that anything rooted at it will be shining. Deva means a demigod/diety or a revered being. It doesn’t mean a shining being!! And thus you prove that you transact your money at the bench in the park.

    “The address is to Mahamada and not to Shiva, you are escaping that point. Simply put you do not want to accept that. Mahadeva and Girijanath are both addressed to Mahamada and hence you are wrong to insist that Shiva is being addressed. ”
    Why would I? Why would somebody address Mahamada with Shiva’s epithets? Simply put, the notion itself is SILLY:

    “A word being masculine does not mean that the object also is masculine. Don’t you know grammar or are you that stupid? ”
    Deva is a noun and if the noun is masculine then the subject is also masculine. You don’t know grammer AND you are THAT stupid:-).

    “Mleccha’s meaning I have established from Bhavishya Purana itself. You are blind.”
    I haven’t contested your meaning. Read properly again. But I have given reasons to believe that it is neither the only meaning, nor is it complete meaning,

    “Mraksha means speak indistinctly. Check any dictionary.”
    Yes please. From the Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon, Mraksha = rub, mix, grind, smear and from this comes the other meaning which is hypocrisy, concealment of one’s vices etc.

    I seriously doubt your credentials as an expert in Sanskrit which you somehow are trying to project out. And I can sense that your knowledge of basic Indian texts is no good either. For example, pisacha, it has been attested as one or many community in Mahabharata check Vana Parv or Bhisma Parv or has always been used to denote a fiendish, devilish person or a demon. The other usage as narapisacha means a wicked (possibly cannibal) person. A meat eater might be called a pisacha but a pisacha wouldn’t signify only a meat eater (or you show me a sanskrit text from ).
    Now lets look at the verse again: paisacham dehamasthay Bhojrajam hi so-abraveet
    If it is only meat eater then paisacham deham is not different from normal manushyam deham.. or your ‘coherent translation’ “in the form of a Pisacha (meat eater) ” is again silly. It just doesn’t fit.

    I will show another act of mistranslation from you. You have translated Maya as wisdom and then tried to show that the epithet mayamadvisharad is used to signify wisdom of Mahamad, the verse reads: “Uvacha Bhupati Premna mayamadvisharadah”. It is well known that visharad means expert, so mayamadvisharad would mean expert of wisdom. And this is your ‘coherent’ translation. The only meaning useful in this passage would be expert of illusion or an expert illusionist!!

    • //You haven’t been able to show the verse that says that Madina is in Vahika. The verse only says that Madhina is the pilgrimage of people living in Vahika and subscribing to this religion.//

      Brilliant honesty of great sanskrit scholar Mr. sudeepta.

      I give you the assignment of reading verse 21 and 22.
      भयभीतास्तु तच्छिष्या देशं वाहीकमाययुः | गृहीत्वा स्वगुरोर्भस्म मदहीनत्वमागतः || स्थापितं तैश्च भूमध्ये तत्रोषुर्मदतत्पराः | मदहीनं पुरं जातं तेषां तीर्थं समं स्मृतम् ||

      When you finish this assignment we will move on, because you have a bad habit of distracting the discussion.

  16. “// The only other way out is to ascribe this word to a community (refer Ashtadhyayi)//

    ah, the sanskrit scholar is coming out. can we know where? ”
    Sorry missed this part. It was wrong for me to refer to Ashtadhyayi here, it was a mistake I was going to write the bracketed part to the lines prior to this line. Here is a text from Ashtadhyayi from Book 2,
    सभान्तस् तत्पुरुषो नपुंसकलिङ्गो भवति, सा चेत् सभा राजपूर्वा, अमनुस्यपूर्वा च भवति। इनसभम्। ईश्वरसभम्। इह कस्मान् न भवति, राजसभा? पर्यायवचनस्य एव इष्यते। तदुक्तम् जित्पर्यायस्य एव राजाध्यर्थम् इति। अमनुष्यपूर्वा रक्षःसभम्। पिशाचसभम्। इह कस्मान् न भवति, काष्ठसभा? अमनुष्यशब्दो रूढिरूपेण् रक्षःपिशाचादिष्वेव वर्तते। राजा अमनुष्यपूर्वा इति किम्? देवदत्तसभा।
    न्यासः
    सभा राजाऽमनुष्यपूर्वा।

    Sabhantas tatpurusho npunsaklingo bhavati, sa chet sabha rajpurva, amanushyapurva cha bhavati. Inasabham. Iha kasmaan na bhavati, rajsabha? Paryayvachanashya ev ishyate. Taduktam Jitparyayashya ev rajadhyartham iti. Amanushypurva Raksh-sabham. Pisacha-sabham. Iha kasmaan na bhavati, kasth-sabha? Amanushya-sabdo rudhirupena rakshah-pisachaadiswev vartate.
    I expect you can do the translation yourself. It clearly says that Rakshasha and Pisachas are non human. Going by this a pisacha would mean a non-human who also eats meat. And panini was intelligent, he knew one day I have to encounter you so he clarifies further that here amanushya specifically denotes (rudhirupena) Rakshas and pisacha, so don’t apply to devduttasabha or kasthasabha (Amanushya-sabdo rudhirupena rakshah-pisachaadiswev vartate.). You will get another reference in Book 6, but then you are the expert here.
    From the evidence of Mahabharata we can relate a different meaning referring to a whole group of peoples. But either way the meaning of pisacha would not end with “a meat eater” at least not in a Sanskrit text.
    Oh and please let the sanskrit scholar come out.

    • Where is the community? And what a joke! You are quoting Kashika, the commentary on Ashtadhyaayi and attributing these words to Panini. Ashtadhyayi only says सभा राजाऽमनुष्यपूर्वा। that’s it Mr. deceiver. You are shameless.

  17. @Bhavishyapuran,
    And please also publish the text and your coherent translation for the first 4 verses missing here (Pratisarg Parv 3; Khand 3; Adhyaai 3)(I should have thought about this earlier)

  18. @Bhavishyapuran,
    “Where is the community? And what a joke! You are quoting Kashika, the commentary on Ashtadhyaayi and attributing these words to Panini. Ashtadhyayi only says सभा राजाऽमनुष्यपूर्वा। that’s it Mr. deceiver. You are shameless.”
    What is the deception here? The commentary is an explanation of Panini. Or do you mean that this explanation is not correct or Kashikvrtti isn’t an authority or do you have another divergent and authoritative explanation for “सभा राजाऽमनुष्यपूर्वा। ” or I have suppressed anything from this explanation or the explanation doesn’t describe the word ‘amanushya’ properly or completely?

    As far as them being a group of people I have given reference from Mahabharat Van Parv and Bhism Parv. In my last comment I have explained that the bracketed part was added mistakenly to the wrong line. But off course you haven’t read it.

    Mr. Mayamadvisharad pisacha (no offence meant, I am using your ‘coherent’ translation) you haven’t been able to prove any of your concocted translations including mayamadvisharad and pisacha within the context of this passage. Add this onto your grand illusioninst (wise, full of wisdom as per great sanskrit scholar Mr. Bhavishyapuran) meanings for Mahadeva and Girijanath and the grandest of them all, Ayoni = Brahma = Abraham = Mahamad.
    You can keep on gloating about your greatness and sanskrit schlorship to yourself and your ad homimems, because thats what you are good at. The only word you got correctly (though partially) was Mlechchha. Every other translated ‘key’ word from you has been shown the door. I would repeat what I have written in a previous comment, in the context of Deva: “Deva is a noun and if the noun is masculine then the subject is also masculine. You don’t know grammer AND you are THAT stupid:-).”, the emphasis on the last part of this quote.

    “Those are irrelevant. Look up yourself.”
    To be honest, I wasn’t expecting anything else from you. Those verses would have smashed this day-dreaming of yours of these passages being part of a dream sequence.

  19. @bhavishyapuran,
    Why do you sound so– I don’t know– belligerent?
    Calling @sudeepta silly or stupid is very immature. Please do tender him an apology, then we can discuss this in a civilized manner. I asked you why you were using the Bhavishya Puran to claim that Muhammad was predicted because the title of this write-up itself says in glaringly big letters “The Prediction of Islam and Prophet Muhammad”.

    I’ll restate my stand on the Abraham issue: the non-existent connection between Brahma and Abraham is as dubious as the connection between Christ and Krishna. If you want your paper taken seriously, please do not indulge in far-fetched speculations.

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